Cache Valley Bee Removal

Jump to content




Photo
- - - - -

Baking soda


  • Please log in to reply
10 replies to this topic

#1 CrazyCodyKadunk

CrazyCodyKadunk

    Junior Member

  • Members Standard
  • 93 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Jersey

Posted 29 April 2010 - 09:55 AM

The other day i got a huge bag of baking soda and on the back it says it will keep pools clear. Do you think it would be good for a turtle pond? I have been having problems with algae the past two years and cant seem to get rid of it or just even keep it under control.

#2 canvasseamonkey

canvasseamonkey

    Junior Member

  • Members Standard
  • 72 posts

Posted 29 April 2010 - 09:29 PM

No not at all. A pool isn't used as a drinking water source for people. And turtles don't have baking soda in the natural water sources they live in.

Buy a filter and UV sterilizer for the water, it keeps mine crystal clear. The turtles make a lot of waste and with out a filter and plants the water will stay green unfortunately.

#3 CrazyCodyKadunk

CrazyCodyKadunk

    Junior Member

  • Members Standard
  • 93 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Jersey

Posted 11 May 2010 - 04:07 PM

I have plenty of plants 2 filters and a uv sterilizer the pond holds around 1200 galleons of water and i cant seem to keep the water clear except in the winter when everything dies back

#4 canvasseamonkey

canvasseamonkey

    Junior Member

  • Members Standard
  • 72 posts

Posted 11 May 2010 - 07:42 PM

Maybe the UV bulb is dead in the sterilizer. Take it out and check. The bulbs in them are sensitive and break when exposed to the cold or even moving the sterilizer indoors for the winter. As long as the bulb works the water will clear out because the intense UV instantly kills the algae cells.

Also, as long as the filter and UV sterilizer are meant to handle 1200 gallons it should work right away. I also live in NJ and it takes 2 days to clear the water after I start the filter in the spring time.

#5 center5150

center5150

    Normal Member

  • Members Plus
  • 282 posts
  • Age: 27
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:lexington ky

Posted 12 August 2011 - 10:54 PM

Baking soda is a base, in pools its used to lower the ph... that allows the chlorine to function better id say it be safe if your goal is lowering the ph... in small doses offcourse but thats it... lots of plants lots of filter is about all u can do, they used to sell benificial bacteria cultures (a dry poweder type thing came in a lil red plastic box) u can add to filters to speed up there growth... did wonders in the dish tanks i used to keep i beleive the brand was tetra something or other

#6 honuman

honuman

    New User

  • Members Standard
  • 2 posts

Posted 10 November 2011 - 12:22 AM

Baking soda can be used to raise the pH. A pH of 7 is neutral, below 7 is acidic with acidity increasing as pH value drops, and above 7 is basic or alkaline. Chlorine is acidic and very useful as a disinfectant. When added to water it forms hypochlorous acid and hydrochloric acid. I'm thinking pool people use it to adjust alkalinity and pH.

#7 Cheloniphile

Cheloniphile

    Normal Member

  • Members Plus
  • 285 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Northeast and Mid Atlantic

Posted 16 November 2011 - 04:07 PM

I stay away from UV sterilizers for a number of reasons: Cost of the unit, cost to operate, and carbon footprint cost (the electric company burns fuel to make the electricity).

Algae blooms are usually an indication of nutrient buildup or low-oxygen / high carbon dioxide. Usually it's a combination of both. UV Sterilizers will kill the algae but the dead, decaying plant matter stays in the water providing more food for ongoing algae blooms. Water changes can help with diluting nutrients, but even a 10% water change on a 1200 gallon pond is 120 gallons and the cost in water and sewage bills can add up. Even if you drain to the outdoors your municipality bills sewer utilization based on water utilization so you get whacked anyway. If you can pump from a very nearby stream or pond you might have a good answer.

A couple of biological answers that have helped me immensely are adding freshwater clams to the tank. I'm from the Northeast and the Elliptio compleanata freshwater clam or mussel abounds in local lakes and ponds. Any local kid who swims in a neighborhood pond can pull up dozens in a few minutes. Drop a few dozen of these filter feeders into your pond and let them eat, and eat, and eat. They'll chow down on your free floating green algae. If and when the algae population drops, the clams weaken and your turtles will eat them, leaving behind calcium in the form of empty shells.

You can also shade the pond from sunlight to cut back on blooms. A bush or shade tree to minimize afternoon sun will keep temperatures lower and reduce the sunlight that fuels the photosynthesis process. If adding shrubbery isn't an option, shade the water surface with water plants like water lillies. Better yet - buy or acquire duckweed which absorbs nutrients from the water, reflects back the sunlight hitting the water surface, and serves as food for fish and turtles. Duckweed propagates like a weed (I thought that was funny) and reduces the carbon dioxide while it reduces nutrient buildup. You can even buy it cheaply on eBay which also has sellers dealing in freshwater clams. Duckweed is a good buy on eBay, I think clams are too expensive when you factor in shipping.

So... water changes, filter feeding clams, shade, and duckweed, in combination, might help if not alleviate your problem.

Paul (Cheloniphile)

#8 Cheloniphile

Cheloniphile

    Normal Member

  • Members Plus
  • 285 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Northeast and Mid Atlantic

Posted 17 November 2011 - 09:15 AM

One of the guys here in the office who reads the forum but doesn't participate pointed out to me that I talked about the problem and some possible solutions, but didn't address the question, which was baking soda.

For myself, I would not use baking soda as an algaecide. As I understand it, algae growth is reduced by baking soda (NaC03) by increasing the pH of the water volume, increasing the general hardness (GH), and by the sodium content (Na) of the compound. Baking soda generally only raises the alkalinity (KH) or buffering capacity of the water to combat acidity without significantly or permanently raising pH or general hardness (GH). So it binds the nitric acid, aka ntrate, aka plant food, and makes it less "edible" for algae. The ntrate is still there, though, so if the KH drops the nitrate can come back into solution feeding a massive algae bloom.

The rule of thumb I go by is about 1 teaspoon of baking soda to 26.5 gallons of water (2.5 grams to 100 liters) to increase KH by about 1 point. For a 1200 gallon pond that would be 300 grams or 0.67 pounds per degree KH change. I can't speak as to how much you would need to actually reduce algae growth by any significant level.

To raise both general hardness (GH) and alkalinity (KH), I would use calcium carbonate (CaCO3) which is most easily but more slowly done by adding a quantity of crushed coral, limestone, or oyster shell in a canister filter separate from your particulate/biological canister filter. 2.5 grams of soluble calcium carbonate per 100 liters would raise GH and KH about 1.5 to 2 points and would impact water chemistry faster than the crushed coral filtering.

I guess this might impact algae growth a little, but it will have a definite and longer term effect on your water, keeping the pH more alkaline which some turtle species might not like. You can’t measure the significance of pH changes as easily as GH and KH because that pH measurement scale we use is logarithmic (math guys, chip in here) – so changes away from a species optimum pH should be VERY gradual – example: ph 5.5 is 10x more acidic than 6.5 which is the number I target for my spotteds and woods. RES and painteds show more tolerance for pH range from a little more acid to more alkaline.

The tendency of our water to become increasingly acidic is due to nitric acid, aka nitrate, which is the product of a successful biological filter reducing ammonia to nitrite to nitrate. It’s also the food for the algae you’re trying to eliminate.

What’s it all mean? I would not look to create any drastic pH changes or add too many external chemicals to control algae in a pond and would, as I said in the previous post, look to biological / environmental controls such as water changes, shade, filter feeders and other plants like duckweed to compete with algae for the nutrients that remain.

Paul (Cheloniphile)

Edited by Cheloniphile, 17 November 2011 - 09:29 AM.


#9 RachelDBT

RachelDBT

    Starting Member

  • Members Standard
  • 23 posts

Posted 28 November 2011 - 03:15 PM

I find this stuff amazing, all the water chemistry stuff. When I was a kid my Dad kept all kinds of aquarium fish and pond fish and he would deal with all the same water quality control issues. I thought turtles would be less affected since they are air breathers. Dad says the factors on the algae bloom are accurate and likes the natural approach to controlling algae. He has had koi ponds for years and has run into the same problem. He said, though, that the duckweed will reproduce but the freshwater clams won't reproduce in the pond, is that important?

Rache

Edited by RachelDBT, 28 November 2011 - 03:16 PM.


#10 TurtlingAnn

TurtlingAnn

    Starting Member

  • Members Standard
  • 27 posts

Posted 05 December 2011 - 05:08 PM

If the turtles can mate then why can't the mussels? Is it a water volume thing?

#11 Cheloniphile

Cheloniphile

    Normal Member

  • Members Plus
  • 285 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Northeast and Mid Atlantic

Posted 10 December 2011 - 12:43 PM

Sorry to let this thread lapse, I just noticed that it had an update. The Elliptio freshwater mussel goes through a larval stage called a glochidia larva that attaches to the gills of some fish species for the duration of its transition from larva to the juvenile stage which will sink into the substrate and grow into the adult form. Some mussel species have more generalist larval forms that can utilize just about any type of fish. The Elliptio species of the east coast seem to be more specialized and favor sunfish / pumkinseeds, perch, and the American eel in its freshwater stages.

I don't think eels would thrive in a small pond and would eventually need to get to salt water. Perch and sunfish can co-habitate with our turles and a few could survive in a small turlle pond, but, depending on the pond size, not too many. I've kept a few sunfish in my larger tanks and my ponds with my painteds, maps, and musks, but the fish get big and become very aggressive at getting to the food first. If you feed turtles in a separate container it wouldn't be too bad.

I don't worry about the mussels breeding. They are part of the filter system / process and eventually food just like feeder fish. I do isolate the mussels in a separate tank for a week to 10 days with an anti-fungal (Pimafix) and an anti-biotic (Kordon's Ich Attach - Napthoquinone). I don't know that this adds any value but It makes me feel like I've made the effort to reduce outside parasites and it doesn't seem to harm either the mussels or the turtles once I put the mussels in the turtle tanks / ponds.

Paul (Cheloniphile)




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users