2 replies to this topic

[trickysparl]

I was trying to sleep late Sunday, eventually I gave up. When I sat up I could see my red bellied cooter trying to climb the glass like mad. I squinted to look at him (as my contacts weren't in yet) and I could see a bulge on his tail, being blurry without my contacts I ran and put them  in. All I could think was maybe my normally shy razorback musk had bitten and latched onto my cooter's butt.

The big blurry spot I saw did seem to be about that size, but once again my vision is horrible. The panic the cooter seemed to be in only made my fear grow. The razorback is small, maybe about 2.75 inches from front to back of shell, the cooter is about 6 inches front to back.

When I walked in there, the cooter was still swimming all over like a madman in a panic. I was now able to see clearly, and apparently....puberty has struck Mr.Bitey...and he seemed to be scared of it. I heard it took 4-5 years for them to reach maturity. We got him in October of 2009, he was about 2 weeks old,making him 3 years old this coming October.

Sooo I was wondering, is it normal for you turtle to wake up with morning wood and try to mate with the glass? That wasn't frantic swimming I was seeing...

[Cheloniphile]

2 1/2 years is VERY rapid for achieving sexual maturity,but he may not be there yet.  Turtles kept in captivity can mature faster as a result of water temperature, air temperature, and consistent, hi-protein foods.   These are cold-blooded (poikilothermic) animals whose metabolism and metabolic growth rates are greatly affected by external temperatures.  In the wild water temperatures, even in Florida's lakes may drop to the mid-high 40's (F) with the thermocline being somewhere between 10 and 15 feet below the surface of the water.  in these colder waters, the metabolism of the turtles slow, including the rates of cellular and tissue growth.  In northern species, turtles are only active for 8 to 10 months of the year, depending on how far north and which species.

Quick question - is your turlte a northern red belly (Pseudemys rubiventris) or a Florida red belly (Pseudemys nelsoni)?  At least one person on the forum refers to them as "rubies" and "nellies", a good, quick reference term.

Northerns, or rubies, have an 8 to 10 month warm air / warm water "year" depending on where in the zone they are located - Maryland area is more temperate for more months than Massachusetts, for example.   Floridas or nellies, pretty much have a full 12 month year.  In the case of Norherns, they would function at a normal, active metabolic rate for those 8 months and their growth would be based on those 8 months.  In captivity, with constant, uniform water and air temperatures, basking times, and food avilability, these northerns could grow faster and reach sexual maturity faster - within 4 to 5 years in some cases instead of 6 to 10 years in the wild.  Some references (see the link, below) indicate closer to 15+ years to sexual maturity in Massachusetts rubies.  

Nellies, despite a longer activity year, are still faced with a number of cool, sunless days and cool water.  Again, in captivity, these temps would be more constant and growth to sexual maturity could be faster.

I've noticed the same early reproductive activity in captive raised blandings, eastern painteds, and common musks.  I've got a 3 1/2 year old musk trying agressively to mate with 8+ year old femaies 3 to 4 times his size and a 4 1/2 year old blandings that will clasp onto anything chelonian, regardless of species or gender.

All that said, the fact that your guy's sexual organs have matured to the point where he can distend his penis (referred to as "fanning") doesn't mean he's sexually mature.  The testes may not be developed to the point that he could effectively produce sperm and reproduce.  This is true in many animal species including humans.  

It is possible that he is attracted to a reflection of himself on the aquarium glass and is trying to do what comes naturally, but aquatic turtles mate by the male clasping onto the carapace of the female and maintaining that reproductive "hug" while copulating.  If he's only just coming into his own, the behavior will likely subside but re-surface from time to time.

Hope this helps.

Paul (Cheloniphile)


A blog from Scientific American about male turtle sex organs
http://scienceblogs.com/tetrapodzoology/2007/04/terrifying_sex_organs_of_male.php

A more scientific treatise about male turtle sex organs
http://www.bio.umass.../Kelly-2004.pdf

A web article describing deliberate accelerated growth of Northern Red Bellies in a head start program
http://www.wickedloc...r#axzz1kUzoJ1og

[trickysparl]

Yes, that is a big help. It looked like he was trying to grab or hold onto the glass, maybe it was his reflection. I keep his water at 75-80 degrees 24/7 as well as a UVB light on 12 hours a day and a basking lamp that warms one of the floating platforms to around 90-95 degrees.

I'm unsure if he's northern or what. When I got him he was sold to me as a red-bellied cooter. I did buy him in Florida however, not sure if that helps. He seems to resemble photos of the Florida red belly more than the northern from what I've been able to pull up on the web.

Thanks for all of that info. I'm gonna have that birds+bees discussion with him later.